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panosdk
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31.01.2015, 20:53
There are no rules in music. We all know that. Maybe a song with a story could work. Are you willing to risk? Thats ok with me. My opinion is that it wont work. From my expierience it is difficult to co write a song with a lyricist for the first time and to make something good. You need a way to work, a way to communicate. And this takes time and some bad first songs maybe. Maybe i am asking too much. Maybe you just want a song and dont expect much from it. To be able to hear it with your friends and dont care about others is a respected goal. So go ahead and do it. I ll ask the lyricist as i said. And i ll tell u if she is interested.
#21   
DavidHalitsky
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31.01.2015, 21:38

panosdk -

Thank you for agreeing to ask her - really - thank you very much.

I also hope that if she agrees to try it, and if she succeeds, then you will try to write the music for her lyrics. (I am assuming here, of course, that you DO like classic zeibekika ... it may be that you really dislike classic zeibekika - I would have no way of knowing that.)

Also, you wrote:

"Maybe you just want a song and dont expect much from it."

Absolutely NOT, panosdk !!!

If the idea doesn't work, then I don't wany ANY song at all !!!

I am genuinely interested in seeing if "classic" zeibekiko structure can be used in a new kind of song that has never existed before.

And finally, regarding this question of whether a zeibekiko can tell a  story (like some US Blues songs do), consider the classic US Blues song "St James Infirmary".

Here are three different performances:

Van Morrison(2003): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZfWsdwKrY
Janis Joplin (1962): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJTUXiIeHtY
Cab Calloway (1930's): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-XI_1LgEik

and here are two different versions of the lyrics:

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/l/louis+armstrong/st+james+infirmary_20085379.html
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/hughlaurie/stjamesinfirmary.html

As you can see from the lyrics, there is a LITTLE bit of story in the song - not much of a story - but a LITTLE bit of a story.

And as you can hear, the song has some of the same feeling as a classic or "neo" zeibekiko - solid rhythm, lot of emotion, etc.  (I think this is particularly true with the Morrison 2003 version ... GREAT rhythm section!!!!!)

This song is one example of why I think a "Greek zeibekiko with a US story" might actually work.

But we won't know until someone tries  ... like maybe your friend, I hope.

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 31-01-2015 21:47 ]

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 31-01-2015 21:55 ]

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 01-02-2015 00:33 ]


#22   
panosdk
Συγχορδία Μινόρε
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01.02.2015, 00:51
The question that bothers me is what do you want to do with the song? I send your lyrics to the lyricist. She was a bit sceptical cause as i said to you, this is not a ordinary way to write a song. She will try it. I dont write this kind of songs often. I wrote some greek "laika" songs for an album last year. If lyrics turn fine i'll try something. If you like it then its ok. If not then you have to find some other composer. Do you want it to be zeibeiko? Cause this era had a lot of great rythms.
#23   
DavidHalitsky
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01.02.2015, 01:31

If she can come up with lyrics and you can "put them to music", I would like to take the song thru to a studio session that will fit in the  budget you previously suggested (250-300 Euros) for the musicians.

And of course, at that point we can also consider some compensation for you and her also.  

Regarding compensation for you and her, I'm thinking that if you two come up with a "good" song that can be taken into the studio, then you would be compensated a certain amount,  and if you can't come up with a "good" song, then you each would still get a smaller amount of compensation anyway, just because you made a "good faith" effort. 

Would that plan work for you (and her)?

Regarding zeibekiko or something else, zeibekiko is my first choice.  But if she can't make "story lyrics" work within zeibekiko structure, then you two will have to suggest an alternative rhythm.  

Can you give me one or more examples of a classic rebetiko or neo-rebetiko song that is slow and "heavy" and "sad" but is not zeibekiko? I will listen to see what you are thinking about as an alternative to zeibekiko.

And please be sure to convey my thanks to her for agreeing to try ...

And of course, thank you as always.

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 01-02-2015 01:32 ]

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 01-02-2015 01:36 ]

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την DavidHalitsky, 01-02-2015 01:40 ]


#24   
panosdk
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01.02.2015, 03:17

Lets clear one thing first and then i'll give my email so we can chat from there. Also i am going to translate what you have to say to the lyricist since she is not so good with english.

The truth is that we are talking about songs that were recorded 40 years ago. So expect a result that is a tribute to the originals. Not a new song from that era. This is imposible. I dont know anyone that writes that way. Music has changed. Recording methods have changed.

So a tribute is a good word that we can have in our minds as a goal. At least in the overall sound. Lyrics is not my job. I'll try to find some modern songs that have common ground with the songs that you posted in the beginning. So you can hear what a 2015 tribute to a 1974 song would sound like. As you can understand its a difficult job for the composer. I dont know anyone who writes this way anymore. Some wish for sure but as i said... music has changed.

Working with this lyricist has its cons and pros. The pro is that i know her, we worked many times and as you can imagine chemistry is an important part. The con is that she cant write lyrics on top of music. When i have to write a demanding song i usually write 2-3 songs and the person who wants it, can pick the best in his opinion. But this happens if the lyricist can write on top of a melody. I guess we will find some solution here.

I have a song to finish this week. But the next week i have an open window so i have time. So i'll search for some modern songs of this genre and i'll phone a studio to ask them if they thing they can produce this kind of song. The person that has the studio is an amazing bouzouki player. He is cheap enough for your budget but i dont trust him in the mixing. Of course if i'll write the song, i'd rather do the mixing myself. But this is not something that can bother us right now. I'll also send you some songs from him so that you can hear his technique. The thing that i want you to understand is that i'll have free time and i always want to get envolved with music making. You dont have to pick my song just because i am offering help. I really dont have a problem about that.

You have many problems to face. And some of these problems must find a solution before we begin to write anything. We just cant write a song and just wait to find a singer. I know some singers but the previous week i heard a Guy that has a voice so close to kazantzidis tha blew my mind. I dont know the Guy. I dont know if he is interested at all. I think i can find his facebook page and send him a message. I can also send you some demos of other singers. I guess you need a male voice.

Send me an email to panosdk@outlook.com and tell me what is your goal. I mean if you plan on spending some money, even a small budget like this, you must have a goal. What are you planing to do with this song? Are you planing to sell it on digital stores? Also the lyricist wants to know what happened to the Guy in ths story. Why he was prosecuted? Did he go to jail? Sorry for the long message,but these are essential stuff.

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την panosdk, 01-02-2015 03:19 ]

[ τροποποιήθηκε από τον/την panosdk, 01-02-2015 03:23 ]


#25   
DavidHalitsky
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01.02.2015, 04:14

Before you edited your post to change your email address from gmail to outlook, I sent you a reply to the gmail address.

So when I saw you had changed from gmail to outlook, I resent the same reply to outlook.


#26